Comments on: Child Training Marathon Revisited and Updated http://nogreaterjoy.org/articles/child-training-marathon-revisited-and-updated/ Over 500 articles from Michael and Debi Pearl on Child Training, Homeschooling, Family, Marriage, Christianity, the Bible, Missions, Simple Living, Gardening, and other topics! Wed, 16 May 2012 15:26:36 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Jennifer http://nogreaterjoy.org/articles/child-training-marathon-revisited-and-updated/#comment-2616 Jennifer Thu, 08 Dec 2011 20:16:07 +0000 http://new.nogreaterjoy.org/?p=2678#comment-2616 A few people have asked about making children mind without spanking. I do not spank and I regularly receive compliments on my children's behavior. They are a joy to be around. I think that in the first place parents need to enjoy their children more, play with them, value them, make the home a happy secure place. Then when a discipline issue arises what I do is very simple. I stop what I am doing (pull the car over, turn the stove off, whatever) go and give my full attention to the child and tell them in a low, quiet, but serious voice that they were to stop that behavior and replace it with a positive behavior. Everything about my demeanor goes from joyful to serious very quickly and this is in stark contrast to the normal happy, joyful running of the home. This is the most common way that I correct my children but other times I simply give an appropriate but calm response to their action. If my child throws his food the meal is over since he clearly does not want it. He is fed healthy food at regular intervals and will not starve. If he does not get himself dressed then I wordlessly dress him. Because we have cultivated an atmosphere where independence and self sufficiency are desirable anytime I dress my child or strap him into the car seat he feels the sting of having a privilege removed. I also monitor their sleep and eating habits and make sure that they are not hungry or tired through any fault of mine. It is unfair to keep children up at all hours and feed them at random intervals and then expect them to have the kind of trust in you that is necessary for voluntary submission to your authority. I feel the spanking described in this article is excessive and disagree with using terms like "brat" or "manipulative" to describe a person you are trying to cultivate a good relationship with. I don't have a problem with spanking as a discipline method but I have found these methods to be far more effective. But as with anything it must be consistent. Too often parents use spanking or other punishments to try and fix their own lack of consistency. This not only damages the child's trust but is completely irresponsible. You don't get to eat pizza, and cake every day and then get skinny after a one day diet and you don't get to sit on your butts for years and then expect obedience after a spanking marathon. You have to put effort into parenting all the time, not just when you get tired or inspired. A few people have asked about making children mind without spanking. I do not spank and I regularly receive compliments on my children’s behavior. They are a joy to be around. I think that in the first place parents need to enjoy their children more, play with them, value them, make the home a happy secure place. Then when a discipline issue arises what I do is very simple. I stop what I am doing (pull the car over, turn the stove off, whatever) go and give my full attention to the child and tell them in a low, quiet, but serious voice that they were to stop that behavior and replace it with a positive behavior. Everything about my demeanor goes from joyful to serious very quickly and this is in stark contrast to the normal happy, joyful running of the home. This is the most common way that I correct my children but other times I simply give an appropriate but calm response to their action. If my child throws his food the meal is over since he clearly does not want it. He is fed healthy food at regular intervals and will not starve. If he does not get himself dressed then I wordlessly dress him. Because we have cultivated an atmosphere where independence and self sufficiency are desirable anytime I dress my child or strap him into the car seat he feels the sting of having a privilege removed. I also monitor their sleep and eating habits and make sure that they are not hungry or tired through any fault of mine. It is unfair to keep children up at all hours and feed them at random intervals and then expect them to have the kind of trust in you that is necessary for voluntary submission to your authority. I feel the spanking described in this article is excessive and disagree with using terms like “brat” or “manipulative” to describe a person you are trying to cultivate a good relationship with. I don’t have a problem with spanking as a discipline method but I have found these methods to be far more effective. But as with anything it must be consistent. Too often parents use spanking or other punishments to try and fix their own lack of consistency. This not only damages the child’s trust but is completely irresponsible. You don’t get to eat pizza, and cake every day and then get skinny after a one day diet and you don’t get to sit on your butts for years and then expect obedience after a spanking marathon. You have to put effort into parenting all the time, not just when you get tired or inspired.

]]> By: Claire http://nogreaterjoy.org/articles/child-training-marathon-revisited-and-updated/#comment-2615 Claire Tue, 08 Nov 2011 16:31:04 +0000 http://new.nogreaterjoy.org/?p=2678#comment-2615 When my first child was born, my mother gave me three questions to ask when seeking to manage small children: "Tired? Hungry? Has to go to the bathroom?" The misbehavior and subsequent spanking described in this story occurred "late at night" on a "cold winter's evening." In my view parents should plan ahead to get kids in bed on time. Consistent bedtimes avoid a world of trouble. When my first child was born, my mother gave me three questions to ask when seeking to manage small children: “Tired? Hungry? Has to go to the bathroom?” The misbehavior and subsequent spanking described in this story occurred “late at night” on a “cold winter’s evening.” In my view parents should plan ahead to get kids in bed on time. Consistent bedtimes avoid a world of trouble.

]]> By: Karla http://nogreaterjoy.org/articles/child-training-marathon-revisited-and-updated/#comment-2614 Karla Sat, 12 Feb 2011 23:31:22 +0000 http://new.nogreaterjoy.org/?p=2678#comment-2614 I have two of the Pearls' books--yet I practice what is commonly referred to as "Gentle Discipline." The key to the Pearl's methods is not the actual discipline, it's the consistency. So, for those of you who are not comfortable with spanking or a switch, I recommend listing the 10 or so common issues you face, and then what the discipline will be. So, for us, talking rudely to a parent, means copy work for the first offense for older children. For the second offense (same day), it might mean a lost of privilege, etc. You can even work with your kids to select consequences. Then there's no emotion involved when somebody disobeys--you just look at the chart. We say, "You choose the action, you choose the consequence." It works well. And I did find great inspiration from the Pearls' books. I have two of the Pearls’ books–yet I practice what is commonly referred to as “Gentle Discipline.” The key to the Pearl’s methods is not the actual discipline, it’s the consistency. So, for those of you who are not comfortable with spanking or a switch, I recommend listing the 10 or so common issues you face, and then what the discipline will be. So, for us, talking rudely to a parent, means copy work for the first offense for older children. For the second offense (same day), it might mean a lost of privilege, etc. You can even work with your kids to select consequences. Then there’s no emotion involved when somebody disobeys–you just look at the chart. We say, “You choose the action, you choose the consequence.” It works well. And I did find great inspiration from the Pearls’ books.

]]> By: Michelle http://nogreaterjoy.org/articles/child-training-marathon-revisited-and-updated/#comment-2613 Michelle Sun, 29 Aug 2010 00:35:57 +0000 http://new.nogreaterjoy.org/?p=2678#comment-2613 I think this is a wonderful article, and JUST what I needed in dealing with my 4 year old, who we have tried in vain to train! I can now see where we have not been consistent with her, and we will try our very best to do so from now on! Thank you for your sweet ministry. Please do not become discouraged from all the negative commentators on here =) I think this is a wonderful article, and JUST what I needed in dealing with my 4 year old, who we have tried in vain to train! I can now see where we have not been consistent with her, and we will try our very best to do so from now on! Thank you for your sweet ministry. Please do not become discouraged from all the negative commentators on here =)

]]> By: Rebecca http://nogreaterjoy.org/articles/child-training-marathon-revisited-and-updated/#comment-2612 Rebecca Fri, 06 Aug 2010 05:17:35 +0000 http://new.nogreaterjoy.org/?p=2678#comment-2612 I respect your work and your advice in this story. However, like another reader remarked I find the epithets you apply to children here arrogant and demeaning. It is possible to walk in humility and assert authority at the same time. I respect your work and your advice in this story. However, like another reader remarked I find the epithets you apply to children here arrogant and demeaning. It is possible to walk in humility and assert authority at the same time.

]]> By: Carrie http://nogreaterjoy.org/articles/child-training-marathon-revisited-and-updated/#comment-2611 Carrie Wed, 23 Jun 2010 13:37:16 +0000 http://new.nogreaterjoy.org/?p=2678#comment-2611 I just have a question for those of you that disagree with spanking. Do you have suggestions for how to make disobedient, willful, whiny, disrespectful children better? I just would like some advice!! Thanks in advance. I just have a question for those of you that disagree with spanking. Do you have suggestions for how to make disobedient, willful, whiny, disrespectful children better? I just would like some advice!! Thanks in advance.

]]> By: Amanda http://nogreaterjoy.org/articles/child-training-marathon-revisited-and-updated/#comment-2610 Amanda Mon, 22 Mar 2010 20:40:48 +0000 http://new.nogreaterjoy.org/?p=2678#comment-2610 My parents spanked, but not consistently, or before much screaming and yelling (my husband also shares a similar story). As a result, I never obeyed before much screaming and yelling, and they would sometimes lose control of themselves and become abusive. It was not at all pleasant, and I was not a pleasant child to be around, and I knew it even then. I have one specific memory of whining and crying for candy at the grocery store. I knew I was being a brat. But I couldn't control myself. I remember very distinctly wishing that someone would reign me in and stop me from embarrassing myself. It wasn't until I had left home that God blessed me with some very Godly mentors who showed me tough love and helped me to learn to control my emotions. I have been a much happier person ever since. Coincidentally (or not) they also have used the Pearl's books in training their own six children, who are the perfect example of what I would like my own children to be: happy, healthy, kind, and confident. We are now attempting to train our two boys in the same way (which is revealing just how far I myself have to go character- wise). Thank you so much for your ministry! My parents spanked, but not consistently, or before much screaming and yelling (my husband also shares a similar story). As a result, I never obeyed before much screaming and yelling, and they would sometimes lose control of themselves and become abusive. It was not at all pleasant, and I was not a pleasant child to be around, and I knew it even then. I have one specific memory of whining and crying for candy at the grocery store. I knew I was being a brat. But I couldn’t control myself. I remember very distinctly wishing that someone would reign me in and stop me from embarrassing myself. It wasn’t until I had left home that God blessed me with some very Godly mentors who showed me tough love and helped me to learn to control my emotions. I have been a much happier person ever since. Coincidentally (or not) they also have used the Pearl’s books in training their own six children, who are the perfect example of what I would like my own children to be: happy, healthy, kind, and confident. We are now attempting to train our two boys in the same way (which is revealing just how far I myself have to go character- wise). Thank you so much for your ministry!

]]> By: Holly http://nogreaterjoy.org/articles/child-training-marathon-revisited-and-updated/#comment-2609 Holly Mon, 22 Mar 2010 08:19:52 +0000 http://new.nogreaterjoy.org/?p=2678#comment-2609 I disagree with the method of discipline in this article. Beatings every 2-3 minutes, down 20 or so miles of road? That's really inhumane. And certainly not Christ-like. It's child abuse. But, most people will not be willing to see it this way, since this is how they "discipline" their children as well. My son is disciplined, just not in the extreme manner involving beatings with a switch. He is to the point where I tell him to do something, and he does it, WITHOUT the fear of abuse. I will be praying for you all... I disagree with the method of discipline in this article. Beatings every 2-3 minutes, down 20 or so miles of road? That’s really inhumane. And certainly not Christ-like. It’s child abuse. But, most people will not be willing to see it this way, since this is how they “discipline” their children as well.

My son is disciplined, just not in the extreme manner involving beatings with a switch. He is to the point where I tell him to do something, and he does it, WITHOUT the fear of abuse. I will be praying for you all…

]]> By: Truth http://nogreaterjoy.org/articles/child-training-marathon-revisited-and-updated/#comment-2608 Truth Tue, 02 Mar 2010 01:54:46 +0000 http://new.nogreaterjoy.org/?p=2678#comment-2608 These switching methods are simply association with negative stimuli, such as in the works of Pavlov or BF Skinner, they have nothing to do with Religion. The actual highest method of affecting a behavioral outcome of compliance is BF Skinner's "inconsistent positive reinforcement" (please note that I didn't say "negative") If you truly wish to "train" your child, which I think is a bit over the top, then a much better way would be to start when they are really young (baby), give commands as to what you want them to do and "randomly", inconsistently, (not every time, unpredictable.) This is the most difficult type of learning to extinguish. (Not consistent negative reinforcement.) Reward them with a positive outcome (perfect for a baby would be a tickle.) In adult terms, if you knew you would receive $10,000 just for showing up to work one day this year, but if you missed that day (you don't know what day it will be) you don't get it, what would your attendance be like? Then once you got the first $10,000, there is a chance that you may get another if you keep showing up everyday. These switching methods are simply association with negative stimuli, such as in the works of Pavlov or BF Skinner, they have nothing to do with Religion. The actual highest method of affecting a behavioral outcome of compliance is BF Skinner’s “inconsistent positive reinforcement” (please note that I didn’t say “negative”) If you truly wish to “train” your child, which I think is a bit over the top, then a much better way would be to start when they are really young (baby), give commands as to what you want them to do and “randomly”, inconsistently, (not every time, unpredictable.) This is the most difficult type of learning to extinguish. (Not consistent negative reinforcement.) Reward them with a positive outcome (perfect for a baby would be a tickle.) In adult terms, if you knew you would receive $10,000 just for showing up to work one day this year, but if you missed that day (you don’t know what day it will be) you don’t get it, what would your attendance be like? Then once you got the first $10,000, there is a chance that you may get another if you keep showing up everyday.

]]> By: Rose http://nogreaterjoy.org/articles/child-training-marathon-revisited-and-updated/#comment-2607 Rose Wed, 24 Feb 2010 20:56:28 +0000 http://new.nogreaterjoy.org/?p=2678#comment-2607 The negative comments reinforce to me that this method is the best. What people are forgetting is that this 2 year old had to be retrained because he was not taught properly in the first place. I have never had to give my children repeated spankings down 20 miles of road because they have been taught to obey without it! Everyone thinks this 2 year old's fit is normal. It is - but it shouldn't be. A 2 year old is definitely capable of not pitching a fit in a car. I'm sorry that you accept less from your children, but perhaps it's because you don't bother to teach them until you are reteaching. Train them up correctly, and you won't have to worry about where they're going. All you have to do is look at the Pearls grown children to see the results. People forget they have adult children who are well adjusted with children of their own. The negative comments reinforce to me that this method is the best. What people are forgetting is that this 2 year old had to be retrained because he was not taught properly in the first place. I have never had to give my children repeated spankings down 20 miles of road because they have been taught to obey without it! Everyone thinks this 2 year old’s fit is normal. It is – but it shouldn’t be. A 2 year old is definitely capable of not pitching a fit in a car. I’m sorry that you accept less from your children, but perhaps it’s because you don’t bother to teach them until you are reteaching. Train them up correctly, and you won’t have to worry about where they’re going. All you have to do is look at the Pearls grown children to see the results. People forget they have adult children who are well adjusted with children of their own.

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