Comments on: Spanking a 7-Month-Old? http://nogreaterjoy.org/articles/spanking-a-7-month-old/ Over 500 articles from Michael and Debi Pearl on Child Training, Homeschooling, Family, Marriage, Christianity, the Bible, Missions, Simple Living, Gardening, and other topics! Fri, 18 May 2012 19:40:56 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: M http://nogreaterjoy.org/articles/spanking-a-7-month-old/#comment-6802 M Tue, 21 Feb 2012 16:14:54 +0000 http://new.nogreaterjoy.org/?p=536#comment-6802 I used this and another article to train my little girl to settle down to sleep. She was 2, and had already been trained to stay in bed, but would consistently call out. I know she's older than the article age, but I would probably do the same, if she was under a year, especially since none of my children have ever gone to sleep with mom or dad present (past the age of 2-3 months). Proverbs 22:6 about "Train up a child in the way he should go . . . " is my prayer, and my 2 boys (8 & 5) know that is why we train like we do. My 8-year-old even verbally 'helps' with the training of his sister*. I can trust him to look out for her, in large part based on training that took place when he was younger. I know this is a little off subject, I added to show proof of reward for what happens when you consistently train. EVEN when they are very small. * I do not mean anything inappropriate with training; he is not the parent. I do however mean encouragement to obey mom, and helping her pick up her toys, etc. I used this and another article to train my little girl to settle down to sleep. She was 2, and had already been trained to stay in bed, but would consistently call out.
I know she’s older than the article age, but I would probably do the same, if she was under a year, especially since none of my children have ever gone to sleep with mom or dad present (past the age of 2-3 months).

Proverbs 22:6 about “Train up a child in the way he should go . . . ” is my prayer, and my 2 boys (8 & 5) know that is why we train like we do. My 8-year-old even verbally ‘helps’ with the training of his sister*. I can trust him to look out for her, in large part based on training that took place when he was younger.
I know this is a little off subject, I added to show proof of reward for what happens when you consistently train. EVEN when they are very small.

* I do not mean anything inappropriate with training; he is not the parent. I do however mean encouragement to obey mom, and helping her pick up her toys, etc.

]]> By: H http://nogreaterjoy.org/articles/spanking-a-7-month-old/#comment-5091 H Sat, 21 Jan 2012 03:33:42 +0000 http://new.nogreaterjoy.org/?p=536#comment-5091 I strongly second the advice to establish a predictable, calming sleep routine--one for nighttime and one slightly different for naps--and the use of something soft and comforting like a stuffed animal or blanket. Like Michael said, don't wait til the baby is overtired; it will backfire and result in their not being able to relax. Our daughter learned to sleep 10-12 hours a night just by putting her to bed at the FIRST sign of tiredness (eye rubbing, yawning, whimpering), putting a routine in place, and putting her to bed awake but calm, when she was 4 months old. She learned to soothe herself and drop off to bed once we became persistent in the routine. It only took about 3 weeks to get to this point, and we never had to let her cry for more than 5 minutes. Both at that time, and when she regressed at 6 months and started waking up multiple times a night, I used a few techniques to calm her back down and put her to bed. At first, I fed her and this helped. I started out feeding on demand because I thought she might be thirsty in the dry desert climate, but I soon realized that she was trying to fall back asleep on me and was not actually eating. From then on, I limited how often I would breastfeed her, usually not between 8pm and 5am. Like Debi said, a baby needs to know she has not been abandoned, so if she cried inconsolably I picked her up, talked to her calmly, and rubbed her back until she stopped crying long enough to listen and take a breath. I then put her immediately back down in bed. She sometimes cried again, but when she saw/heard me walk away she almost immediately stopped and did her self-soothing (sucked her thumb, rolled over, grabbed her lamb) and went back to sleep. I think we need to remember that the word "training" isn't a bad word just because we carry some bad connotations with it. Athletes train, professionals and skilled workers train--training is not just for animals. We are spiritual creatures, which means that inasmuch as we live in bodies, we do need training from time to time. Our nature craves it! The use of routines and sleep cues discussed in this post and my comment are well-researched, employing both classical and operant conditioning from basic behavioral psychology. While not everything done in the field of psychological research has historically been best for babies or people, learning to calm and soothe oneself, and to sleep well are a lifelong skills--and routines and cues will be useful even in adulthood. Self-soothing is learned behavior, and training a baby to do it is a gift to her and to you. You have to ensure that your purpose in training is noble, and that your means suit your ends. For example, if you were training a pit bull to attack on command, that might be a less noble goal than to train a rescue dog to sniff out people from among the rubble. Yet both trainers would we using principles of dog behavior to accomplish their goals, and depending on their methods, they might succeed or fail at producing the desired result. Training a person to do something good, something for themselves, and training them in a way that is good give "training" a positive connotation again. I think we have to remember that the body itself is not evil, but that it is susceptible to many of the same neural circuitry as animals, and it is our responsibility and privilege as self-aware, spiritual beings made in God's image to be aware of our brain chemistry and how it affects our behavior, and then use that knowledge to better imitate God. This is a way of honoring God with our bodies and it is an act of worship. When I look at my daughter sleeping peacefully, knowing that I let her learn to calm herself down and drop off to sleep, I know that this is true. I strongly second the advice to establish a predictable, calming sleep routine–one for nighttime and one slightly different for naps–and the use of something soft and comforting like a stuffed animal or blanket. Like Michael said, don’t wait til the baby is overtired; it will backfire and result in their not being able to relax. Our daughter learned to sleep 10-12 hours a night just by putting her to bed at the FIRST sign of tiredness (eye rubbing, yawning, whimpering), putting a routine in place, and putting her to bed awake but calm, when she was 4 months old. She learned to soothe herself and drop off to bed once we became persistent in the routine. It only took about 3 weeks to get to this point, and we never had to let her cry for more than 5 minutes. Both at that time, and when she regressed at 6 months and started waking up multiple times a night, I used a few techniques to calm her back down and put her to bed. At first, I fed her and this helped. I started out feeding on demand because I thought she might be thirsty in the dry desert climate, but I soon realized that she was trying to fall back asleep on me and was not actually eating. From then on, I limited how often I would breastfeed her, usually not between 8pm and 5am. Like Debi said, a baby needs to know she has not been abandoned, so if she cried inconsolably I picked her up, talked to her calmly, and rubbed her back until she stopped crying long enough to listen and take a breath. I then put her immediately back down in bed. She sometimes cried again, but when she saw/heard me walk away she almost immediately stopped and did her self-soothing (sucked her thumb, rolled over, grabbed her lamb) and went back to sleep. I think we need to remember that the word “training” isn’t a bad word just because we carry some bad connotations with it. Athletes train, professionals and skilled workers train–training is not just for animals. We are spiritual creatures, which means that inasmuch as we live in bodies, we do need training from time to time. Our nature craves it! The use of routines and sleep cues discussed in this post and my comment are well-researched, employing both classical and operant conditioning from basic behavioral psychology. While not everything done in the field of psychological research has historically been best for babies or people, learning to calm and soothe oneself, and to sleep well are a lifelong skills–and routines and cues will be useful even in adulthood. Self-soothing is learned behavior, and training a baby to do it is a gift to her and to you. You have to ensure that your purpose in training is noble, and that your means suit your ends. For example, if you were training a pit bull to attack on command, that might be a less noble goal than to train a rescue dog to sniff out people from among the rubble. Yet both trainers would we using principles of dog behavior to accomplish their goals, and depending on their methods, they might succeed or fail at producing the desired result. Training a person to do something good, something for themselves, and training them in a way that is good give “training” a positive connotation again. I think we have to remember that the body itself is not evil, but that it is susceptible to many of the same neural circuitry as animals, and it is our responsibility and privilege as self-aware, spiritual beings made in God’s image to be aware of our brain chemistry and how it affects our behavior, and then use that knowledge to better imitate God. This is a way of honoring God with our bodies and it is an act of worship. When I look at my daughter sleeping peacefully, knowing that I let her learn to calm herself down and drop off to sleep, I know that this is true.

]]> By: Melinda http://nogreaterjoy.org/articles/spanking-a-7-month-old/#comment-1726 Melinda Mon, 14 Nov 2011 04:28:32 +0000 http://new.nogreaterjoy.org/?p=536#comment-1726 This is absolutely shocking. This man suggested hitting a 7 month old with a switch on the legs and you are seeking his advice? It is never acceptable to strike/"spank" a child under the age of 3 ever! For any reason! If the baby is about to be burned on a hot stove why don't you remove them from the situation? That's a normal responsible parent would do. This is absolutely shocking. This man suggested hitting a 7 month old with a switch on the legs and you are seeking his advice? It is never acceptable to strike/”spank” a child under the age of 3 ever! For any reason! If the baby is about to be burned on a hot stove why don’t you remove them from the situation? That’s a normal responsible parent would do.

]]> By: Jennifer http://nogreaterjoy.org/articles/spanking-a-7-month-old/#comment-1725 Jennifer Sun, 02 Oct 2011 21:05:00 +0000 http://new.nogreaterjoy.org/?p=536#comment-1725 I can respect the views of all of you who disagree with the Pearls' methods. It doesn't offend or worry me at all, because I understand that it is in human nature to be gluttons for punishment. We do what feels good now even though we know we will suffer the consequences later. Naturally, we want to cuddle our babies for as long as we can because they're just so sweet and cute. We laugh at all their funny little behaviors that would earn an older child a spanking. We excuse our own children's naughtiness as personality quirks, even while judging other parents for their own children's shortcomings. Just know that eventually you will have to train your child in the behaviors that you believe are correct. If you don't want your 7-year-old sleeping in your bed, at some point you will have to train them to sleep in their own bed, or with a sibling. If you don't want them to cry and throw fits every single night at bedtime, you will have to discover a way to train them out of it. The age at which you train them in these and other areas is completely up to you, as is the method that you use, but be assured that it will have to happen. I myself am the mother of a 3-year-old and a 13-month-old, both girls, whom I love dearly, and spank regularly. I do not believe in spanking in anger, or leaving bruises, or beating your child over and over again until you "get your way." But I do believe that children who are too young to be taught verbally must be taught physically. Everything in this world that they do will have either a positive or negative PHYSICAL consequence. Touching a hot stove will burn their hand and they will learn not to touch it. A cat will scratch the child if he/she pulls its tail. Are the stove or the cat then abusing the child because they hurt him/her? Most of us would answer "no." So why do so many of you feel that physically conditioning your child to a specific response is tantamount to child abuse? If I don't want my 13-month-old to touch the keyboard when I'm holding her on my lap at the computer, I teach her that it is unpleasant to do so by spanking her hand whenever she reaches for it. As long as I am 100% consistent, she will always associate that action with that consequence. Those of you who feel a baby will not relate the two events have not tried it and been consistent enough to see that it actually works. Being completely consistent, immovable, and uncompromising, does not mean being uptight, harsh, or abusive. Most of us would agree that the place to pee is in the toilet and nowhere else. Does it make us abusive parents that we expect our children to behave in strict adherence to that belief? Those of you who find fault with the strict methods of the Pearls should look closely at the intended outcome, then ask yourselves if you would like your children to behave that way. If the answer is yes, then ask yourselves if it is really a bad thing to be 100% consistent, immovable, and uncompromising when trying to achieve those results. The only reason this question was even asked is because the proper training was not implemented from the birth of the child. When that happens, it is important to correct undesirable behaviors as quickly as possible, rather than waiting until the child "understands." Really, do you think it will be any easier on the child (or the parents) for him/her to learn to self-soothe after 12 more months of inconsistent sleep-training? Nip it in the bud! I can respect the views of all of you who disagree with the Pearls’ methods. It doesn’t offend or worry me at all, because I understand that it is in human nature to be gluttons for punishment. We do what feels good now even though we know we will suffer the consequences later. Naturally, we want to cuddle our babies for as long as we can because they’re just so sweet and cute. We laugh at all their funny little behaviors that would earn an older child a spanking. We excuse our own children’s naughtiness as personality quirks, even while judging other parents for their own children’s shortcomings.

Just know that eventually you will have to train your child in the behaviors that you believe are correct. If you don’t want your 7-year-old sleeping in your bed, at some point you will have to train them to sleep in their own bed, or with a sibling. If you don’t want them to cry and throw fits every single night at bedtime, you will have to discover a way to train them out of it. The age at which you train them in these and other areas is completely up to you, as is the method that you use, but be assured that it will have to happen.

I myself am the mother of a 3-year-old and a 13-month-old, both girls, whom I love dearly, and spank regularly. I do not believe in spanking in anger, or leaving bruises, or beating your child over and over again until you “get your way.” But I do believe that children who are too young to be taught verbally must be taught physically. Everything in this world that they do will have either a positive or negative PHYSICAL consequence. Touching a hot stove will burn their hand and they will learn not to touch it. A cat will scratch the child if he/she pulls its tail. Are the stove or the cat then abusing the child because they hurt him/her? Most of us would answer “no.” So why do so many of you feel that physically conditioning your child to a specific response is tantamount to child abuse? If I don’t want my 13-month-old to touch the keyboard when I’m holding her on my lap at the computer, I teach her that it is unpleasant to do so by spanking her hand whenever she reaches for it. As long as I am 100% consistent, she will always associate that action with that consequence. Those of you who feel a baby will not relate the two events have not tried it and been consistent enough to see that it actually works.

Being completely consistent, immovable, and uncompromising, does not mean being uptight, harsh, or abusive. Most of us would agree that the place to pee is in the toilet and nowhere else. Does it make us abusive parents that we expect our children to behave in strict adherence to that belief?

Those of you who find fault with the strict methods of the Pearls should look closely at the intended outcome, then ask yourselves if you would like your children to behave that way. If the answer is yes, then ask yourselves if it is really a bad thing to be 100% consistent, immovable, and uncompromising when trying to achieve those results.

The only reason this question was even asked is because the proper training was not implemented from the birth of the child. When that happens, it is important to correct undesirable behaviors as quickly as possible, rather than waiting until the child “understands.” Really, do you think it will be any easier on the child (or the parents) for him/her to learn to self-soothe after 12 more months of inconsistent sleep-training? Nip it in the bud!

]]> By: NGJ Staff http://nogreaterjoy.org/articles/spanking-a-7-month-old/#comment-1724 NGJ Staff Mon, 26 Sep 2011 20:11:35 +0000 http://new.nogreaterjoy.org/?p=536#comment-1724 Your disbelief in God is your own choice. Since God is the source of truth the counsel and advice is based on that truth and it does not have anything to do with religion. Brainwashing by definition is the removing (washing) of something that is already learned and replacing it with a other information that is generally a lie. This is a very common practice of communist and fascist regimes. Parents (whether believers or nonbelievers) teach (not brainwash) their children. Many of today's believers grew up with non-believing parents and many non-believers grew up with believing parents. Each individual will make that choice for themselves no matter their background. Your disbelief in God is your own choice. Since God is the source of truth the counsel and advice is based on that truth and it does not have anything to do with religion. Brainwashing by definition is the removing (washing) of something that is already learned and replacing it with a other information that is generally a lie. This is a very common practice of communist and fascist regimes. Parents (whether believers or nonbelievers) teach (not brainwash) their children. Many of today’s believers grew up with non-believing parents and many non-believers grew up with believing parents. Each individual will make that choice for themselves no matter their background.

]]> By: melissa http://nogreaterjoy.org/articles/spanking-a-7-month-old/#comment-1723 melissa Sun, 25 Sep 2011 00:27:28 +0000 http://new.nogreaterjoy.org/?p=536#comment-1723 ...Am I the ony one here who doesn't believe in God? Why is so much of this site based around God. You should make soe kind of advice that doesn't have anything to with religion. I think the worse kind of abuse to a child is brainwashing it into believing in religion it may not have agreed with, had it not grown up with it. ..I also dont fully agree or disagree with these disiplinary tactics. Yes, parents have gotten soft. But SOME of these things arent necessary …Am I the ony one here who doesn’t believe in God? Why is so much of this site based around God. You should make soe kind of advice that doesn’t have anything to with religion. I think the worse kind of abuse to a child is brainwashing it into believing in religion it may not have agreed with, had it not grown up with it. ..I also dont fully agree or disagree with these disiplinary tactics. Yes, parents have gotten soft. But SOME of these things arent necessary

]]> By: sherri http://nogreaterjoy.org/articles/spanking-a-7-month-old/#comment-1722 sherri Fri, 12 Aug 2011 20:24:35 +0000 http://new.nogreaterjoy.org/?p=536#comment-1722 Wow, you people scare me. As adults you have to ask about hitting a baby. You call yourself followers of God. Kids are God gift in life. How could you think about hitting something that only wants you to hold and love it(him/her). There will be time to correct and talk to them. Creating fear only stops the behavior when your looking. As for anonymous of course the child comes to you with open arms. Only for now because she wants your approval. This will change as she is older or she will abuse other things instead of you. Either way you are not and will not raise a healthy child by hitting them. I say if you hit for not going to bed, hit for back talking, hit for not getting good grades when will the hitting end, never end the cycle and hug and praise. Teach the children you are right there and will be there always just like we know God is. Wow, you people scare me. As adults you have to ask about hitting a baby. You call yourself followers of God. Kids are God gift in life. How could you think about hitting something that only wants you to hold and love it(him/her). There will be time to correct and talk to them. Creating fear only stops the behavior when your looking. As for anonymous of course the child comes to you with open arms. Only for now because she wants your approval. This will change as she is older or she will abuse other things instead of you. Either way you are not and will not raise a healthy child by hitting them. I say if you hit for not going to bed, hit for back talking, hit for not getting good grades when will the hitting end, never end the cycle and hug and praise. Teach the children you are right there and will be there always just like we know God is.

]]> By: Christian http://nogreaterjoy.org/articles/spanking-a-7-month-old/#comment-1721 Christian Wed, 04 May 2011 03:46:33 +0000 http://new.nogreaterjoy.org/?p=536#comment-1721 Has anyone here noticed how much freedom of speech these evil Pearls are allowing?... how could they ever be overbearing if they haven Has anyone here noticed how much freedom of speech these evil Pearls are allowing?… how could they ever be overbearing if they haven

]]> By: Amy http://nogreaterjoy.org/articles/spanking-a-7-month-old/#comment-1720 Amy Sun, 21 Nov 2010 16:50:08 +0000 http://new.nogreaterjoy.org/?p=536#comment-1720 God is pleased with the passion from which all of your hearts flow! Let us all now allow ourselves to please him and take the truths you have heart and ask Him how He wants YOU to appropriately apply these to your lives. Thank you Paul for corralling in the herd using God's loving Scriptures. Thank you Michael for your original humility in not being fully aware of the questioner's circumstances and attitude that ultimately allowed you to provide some steps she can be sure to take "tomorrow". God is pleased with the passion from which all of your hearts flow! Let us all now allow ourselves to please him and take the truths you have heart and ask Him how He wants YOU to appropriately apply these to your lives. Thank you Paul for corralling in the herd using God’s loving Scriptures. Thank you Michael for your original humility in not being fully aware of the questioner’s circumstances and attitude that ultimately allowed you to provide some steps she can be sure to take “tomorrow”.

]]> By: Anonymous http://nogreaterjoy.org/articles/spanking-a-7-month-old/#comment-1719 Anonymous Fri, 17 Sep 2010 15:40:20 +0000 http://new.nogreaterjoy.org/?p=536#comment-1719 I have a baby girl, now 7 months old. She might not be able to discern right from wrong, but she definitely knows what "no" means, AND, she knows that if she does not obey, there will be consequences. I gave her her first swat when she was about 4 months old. She did not sleep well on her back, but learned to roll over when I placed her on her tummy in bed. I would hug and kiss her, lay her down, and then wait. If she rolled over, I gave her a light swat on the leg with a small wooden spoon. It only took a couple of times before she gladly went to sleep on her tummy. For those of you who would critisize, she was not scared, but she was tired, and Mama knew that she needed a nap. Why give the example? I knew it was for her own good to sleep on her tummy, and since she would not sleep on her back, I had no choice. She now sleeps fine on her back, so if she chooses to sleep that way - fine with me, but as with the previous example I do not allow her to sit up when I lay her down for a nap. Does she resent me or shrink away from me? NO! When she wakes up and I go to get her, she greets me with a giggle and outstretched arms. Again, it's establishing authority in her life for her own good!!!!! Thank you Pearls! I have a baby girl, now 7 months old. She might not be able to discern right from wrong, but she definitely knows what “no” means, AND, she knows that if she does not obey, there will be consequences. I gave her her first swat when she was about 4 months old. She did not sleep well on her back, but learned to roll over when I placed her on her tummy in bed. I would hug and kiss her, lay her down, and then wait. If she rolled over, I gave her a light swat on the leg with a small wooden spoon. It only took a couple of times before she gladly went to sleep on her tummy. For those of you who would critisize, she was not scared, but she was tired, and Mama knew that she needed a nap. Why give the example? I knew it was for her own good to sleep on her tummy, and since she would not sleep on her back, I had no choice. She now sleeps fine on her back, so if she chooses to sleep that way – fine with me, but as with the previous example I do not allow her to sit up when I lay her down for a nap. Does she resent me or shrink away from me? NO! When she wakes up and I go to get her, she greets me with a giggle and outstretched arms. Again, it’s establishing authority in her life for her own good!!!!! Thank you Pearls!

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